Roll Bars in open cars at AX

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vwcorvette
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Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by vwcorvette »

So after last night's discussion at the club meeting I've been reading up on roll bars, reading differing opinions, and trying to come to a reasonable conclusion.

It is my opinion, and mine only, that requiring bars--even if only at Devil's Bowl--was made in haste and without enough input on the part of the membership of the club. At the very least not all members were made aware of the change. This is an important discussion and one which certainly should not be taken lightly. But all members need to be given an opportunity to contribute to the discussion.

When exactly was this decided? How many members participated and was there a quorum?

I don't want to suggest that we not have such a rule, but we need to be careful not to scare away current and potential competitors and new members. And we need to make sure we follow club guidelines when adopting changes.

The SCCA recommends a minimum of a roll bar in all cars, but does not require them in open cars in stock classes. When present they may be allowed below the minimum height to clear a factory hard or soft top.

I can cut and paste the regs if you like.

George
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by ryed »

Thanks George. Your post should have been directed to the board members. The board held a special meeting to discuss this issue in detail, and came up with recommendations that were presented at the last meeting, which was then voted on, and approved.

I'm sorry that you missed the meeting, but if you have further thoughts on this issues, they should be directed to the board.
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vwcorvette
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by vwcorvette »

I wholeheartedly disagree. Without prior notice of said agenda members do not have the ability to make appropriate choices about attendance. Some of us have commitments that can keep us from meetings. Topics of discussion should be openly posted so that a member could still provide input and vote should they desire to do so. I still would like to know how many voted versus how many members make up the club. That's not too much to ask.

Otherwise decisions being made "in the interest" of the club come into question as to intent and reason.

This club has always operated in an open and responsible manner. Trying to cover-up particular incidents is a bad road to travel.

Again, I am not against a new rule. I just ask that all members of the club be made aware of changes that may or may not effect them. Informed consideration of topics is vital to the healthy and successful operation of any organization.

George
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vwcorvette
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by vwcorvette »

8.(Revised 6/61) The Board of Directors shall have the authority to propose amendment of these by-laws, provided a majority of the directors shall favor such amendment. The text of the proposed amendment will be published in the club bulletin together with a ballot form. Members will return the completed form to the Secretary within 30 days. A two-thirds majority of the ballots received will adopt the said amendment.
This from our bylaws. Wherein there is no mention of rules governing the actual running of events, the implementation of standards and regulations, only that the autocross coordinator, "shall arrange and supervise all autocrosses, ice trials, and time trials sponsored by the club. He shall arrange a calendar of events in cooperation with the rally coordinator, He shall determine classes for ice trials and autocrosses. He shall maintain and publish a list of approved Technical inspectors. He shall arrange prizes and awards."

I think is an oversight on our part. There needs to be some part of the bylaws referencing our rules, regulations, and methods.

Something to consider. CYA and all...
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by gtivr4 »

Can I ask what happened? I assume this is in response to the unmentionable incident at Devil's Bowl?
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by STI NICK »

George those are to make changes to the by laws. It has nothing to do with changes to the safety rules of our events. Get your facts straight.
This is something that I am sure will be revised in the future as people have more ideas. If you feel this strongly I think you should attend more meeting or be more active in the club. How ever not everyone can be at every meeting and be apart of every discussion. Which is why this rule may be revised in the future, but the fact is this rule was voted on by members of the club not the board. There were a lot of people with convertibles there that had a hand in voting for this rule.
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by tiFreak »

so roll bars are now required in all events or is it just for convertibles?
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by BugEyeRex »

tiFreak wrote:so roll bars are now required in all events or is it just for convertibles?
The additional safety requirement of rollbars for convertibles is only for autox at Devil's Bowl and SLMP. It is not required for permenant topped cars or other venues we autox at.
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vwcorvette
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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by vwcorvette »

Nick,

Yes, I know they are the by-laws. They however are the basis for the organization. And, there is nothing in the bylaws about how any other rules and regulations should be created and or enacted. That is an oversight. And where are these "safety rules" or supplementals?

More active? Hello? I have been involved with this club since 93. As VP and later as President for two years when no one else wanted it. I have worked Philo, autocrosses, and other events. I started this damn club in 96 after it fell into nothing but a money pit for the Philo hillclimb. I spent a lot of time and effort finding parking lots, etc. I created the mall show to promote the club and increase membership. All the things you now do. I chaired the rules steering committee which was done in an open and reasonable manner. Please don't lecture me about involvement.

All I'm asking is the club make sure to include all PAID members on issues pertaining to changes potentially effecting them. Not too much to ask. When we did the rules changes for AX we at least used the forums to garner information and opinion. This time not so. Bad idea. Unless the club is trying to hide something.

So a car rolled. As described it seemed pretty harmless. Were the proper actions taken following the event? Contacts, paperwork, etc? Then what of it. Not the first autocross where something like this has happened.

I'm done now. Go ahead and lock this thread. :soapbox:
Geo

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Re: Roll Bars in open cars at AX

Post by STI NICK »

George I will lecture you since you opened you mouth. This club like many operates on volunteers. The more help we get the more gets done. Just because you did stuff years ago doesnt really help how things run now. we all appreciate what you have done in the past, but again its not helping now. The club does try and inform everyone, and no one is hiding anything. if you think someone is, maybe you forgot what this club is about. We simply dont have the help or time to do everything like SCCA or other larger clubs.

Now if you want to help improve things now instead of disappearing for months and then showing up and ranting. that would be great, otherwise keep your useless rants to yourself.
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