Sports Car Club of Vermont

I just sent off a rules suggestion to 2008NEHA at hillclimb dot org and thought I'd post it here for discussion as I'm new to this, having just one event under my belt.

It goes something like this:

Addition of the following classes:
Unprepared - No Cage
Unprepared - Roll bar & harness
Street Prepared - No Cage
Street Prepared - Roll bar & harness

All current rules in Part 2 apply to the new classes with the
exception: tires must have a minimum treadwear rating of 140 (i.e. no
DOT-R compound tires).

The current break-out times would be split into two different breakout
times, one for 'no cage' and one for 'roll bar & harness' equipped
cars.

The addition of these classes will provide a reason for running
hillclimb events for those with no cage and potentially increase the
attendance level at events. Currently cars limited to the break-out
time are in the same class with caged cars that have no break-out
time. There is no competitive reason for attending events.

For cars that must adhere to the break-out time, it makes no sense to
use DOT-R compound tires. Mandating a minimum treadware rating will
ensure that drivers will have the audible feedback street tires
provide when they are pushed near their limits for safety reasons.

The use of two break-out times will allow the events to provide
competition for a wider audience while still maintaining a level of
safety. The break out times should be slightly slower or equivalent to
the current break-out times for 'no cage' cars and slightly faster for
cars equipped with safety equipment in the 'roll bar & harness'
classes.

Additionally, I believe a minimum experience level should be adopted
in the form of Autoslalom, Timeattack, Track school, Rally,Hillclimb,
etc. to ensure a certain level of car control experience is posessed
by entrants. By nature, hill climbs offer very little room for error
and I don't believe are appropriate for a first motorsport experience (without a caged car).

Of course, none of the above matters if the goal of the break-out times is to 'encourage' people to get cages. I'm sure there's holes in my thoughts but I'm not a rules guru and that's why I thought I'd post it here.

Regards,
Tashko.

Currently cars limited to the break-out
time are in the same class with caged cars that have no break-out
time. There is no competitive reason for attending events.

The only class that has a breakout time and allows for non-cages is a U class.

The breakout times were developed to slow down non-caged cars. Yes, to be competitive you need a cage. This isn't a Sunday drive.... (Sunday drives do not require cages). We had some pretty darn fast cars in U (FTD, as a matter of fact). Instead of requiring cages for all cars, the breakout rule was developed for the 2006 season for U and then expanded to SP in 2007.

I gotta remember to check the NEHA 2008 Rules e-mail... forgot all about it.

Steve

Just a rollbar and harness, doesn't offer a whole lot more protection.
The nature of a hillclimb means you are more likely to to hit a tree/rock with the front end or door of you vehicle. You really want that door and a-pillar protection.
There are few pre-fab cage makers out there, that have offerings for a lot of different cars out there. It can be done relatively cheaply.
Tashko, I had my cage done west of Ottawa, and done quick inexpensively.
Would you like me to dig up contact info?

Seth- Yes please! More cage options is mo' bettah.

280/1000 is getting a cage this winter, fo 'sho. Then I can tussle with Ralph Cota's Peugeot (figuratively speaking, of course) and see if the GVR4 can get near the 505's times. I think it can.

Tashko, go ahead, by a daily driver beater and cage the Talon! It deserves it and more importantly, you do, esp. considering the events you drive with it.

For the break-out times, I was thinking more in terms of getting more people out. I guess the point of the break-out time is for people to try hillclimb and see how they like it?
I don't disagree with break-out times and, barring schedule conflicts, I'll try the other 'close' events next year to see how they are. The fact that it isn't a Sunday drive is why I'm surprised a complete novice can show up and run.

Jim, I already have a beater that I daily drive in the winter because of all the salt we use on the road here. However, I did drive the Talon all last week. During the summer I alternate between the two cars.

As far as my Talon goes, I don't have any plans to cage it. It's more like my collector car. It's the first car I've owned and I've put enough into it that I don't plan on bending any of the sheet metal! The only time I drive it 10/10ths is autoslaloms. Any track event (or hillclimb!) I leave enough margin to hopefully recover or at least limit the damage. Also, if I cage it, I can't put my racing tires in the back and I will have to tow a trailer! That's also one of the reasons why I dont' have a roll bar yet!
Although, I'm eyeing a nice deal on an OMP seat, which will lead to a harness and a roll bar...

Seth, I actually have a Talon ice racer that I might use for RallyCross. I have thought about putting a cage in so, sure, pass on the cage info!
Now if I caged the ice racer I could use it for hill climbs in unprepared (it's stock) but I would also need to rent a trailer and borrow a tow vehicle to get it to any events, increasing the costs!

Anyway, enough about me, back to the topic!

Ok, I'll dig up the info after the holidays.

But if you just can't wait:
Contact a shop called "mini man" in Carp ontario. Talk to the owner. I believe he sublet the cage work to a guy named Stew.

I hear you on not wanting to cage the Talon. It's a nice example and there is something to be said for keeping it that way.

After my GVR4 has a cage I plan on still driving it to events. I know that's increasing my risk of splitting open my noggin, but I'm not in a position to invest in a truck and trailer anytime soon. A full set of race tires should still fit into it even with a cage. I guess that's the one benefit of having a 300 lb. weight penalty vs. a Talon or Eclipse!

I think the breakout time system is a good one from a safety standpoint, but it does limit the type of cars that can run competitively at a hillclimb. A certain 911 Turbo was missing last year due to rule, I believe. Ultimately though, a fatality at an event is much worse than struggling to attract new participants b/c of the cage rule. The breakout time rule straddles the line between these two somewhat exclusive priorities.